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Post by Zeffa! on Feb 22, 2008 22:27:34 GMT -8
I've been keeping up with these protests for a while now, and I say Bravo to Anonymous. If anyone hasn't heard, the internet seems to have massed into a group known as "anonymous" from all dark corners of cyberspace, including 4chan, encyclopediadramatica (warning, don't go there if you have any moral fiber left in your body.. unless you want a really good laugh at the world), and many many more sites. They're all forming a civil and unified protest against The "church" of scientology.
It's not just some stupid internet group showing up either. On February 10th over 9000 people showed up in orlando, as well as hundreds in cities all over with world, in over 14 countries. IT's a huge event that's going around, dismissed at first by fox news as being a "group of cyber terrorists" or "hackers on steroids," which caused quite the hefty amount of laughs (aka lulz) among Anonymous members. It's all over youtube, just type in chanology, anonymous, scientology, or anything related to them.
Anonymous' videos are dramatic and use powerful elements such as a masked voice and no active visible speaker, often a single image or a series of clouds moving by quickly.
They're really giving it their all though, and this march they're going to be protest again. The ides of march. Julius Caesar's ghost does not forgive. At any rate, if anyone else has been keeping up with it, feel free to talk about it here. I know my roommate and my brother are getting a kick out of it too. I might show my support for it later.
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Post by Raiku on Feb 23, 2008 9:37:15 GMT -8
From what I heard, they are supposed to be 'cyber-terrorists'. Threatening ex-members of Anonymous with death threats towards themselves and their families. It's not really 'cool' in my opinion when people have to move, change their identities completely, and always have that constant fear that someone will be watching not only themselves, but their bank accounts as well. It's kinda sick, to be honest. Though an interesting topic.
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Post by silentstranger on Feb 23, 2008 9:48:40 GMT -8
I've never heard of it, but now I'm offically creeped out.
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Post by Raiku on Feb 23, 2008 9:51:47 GMT -8
Meh, I seriously doubt that they will ever bother us.
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Post by silentstranger on Feb 23, 2008 10:36:32 GMT -8
But there is always the possibility that they might.
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Post by Dark Beauty on Feb 23, 2008 11:18:31 GMT -8
...What, what? I've never heard of this. What is it that they believe... or are protesting?
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Post by Raiku on Feb 23, 2008 11:48:29 GMT -8
They hate Scientologists. They form massive protests and stuff like that against it, which is perfectly acceptable and I commend their ability to collaborate them, nonetheless, the things they do when not protesting is what's dangerous. Hacking, closing bank accounts, threatening...It's just an underground association of cyber-jerks. But hey, I could be ignorant about such things. Just relaying what I've read and heard from dad's cop friends.
Gotta admit though, it's amazing how the internet can do things like that.
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Post by Dark Beauty on Feb 23, 2008 19:11:36 GMT -8
...I personally don't see why the heck a bunch of computer geeks hate that specific religion. I did some research on it, and it seems respectable. Why do these nerds get massive protests together about it? I just don't understand... is there something I am missing? There must be... do Scientologists hate computers or something?
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Post by Zeffa! on Feb 24, 2008 3:52:16 GMT -8
I haven't seen any solid accounts of anything like that. Firstly, the idea that anonymous has a policy regarding members leaving it is completely absurd. Anonymous is not by any means organized enough to do anything of the sort, being a group of random people from all around the world with an internet connection. Although I don't believe it's true, as the CoS has a long history, and even governing policies by L Ron Hubbard regarding how to assault their critics (and I can pull up quotes and evidence regarding this). Such tactics include accusing the critic of uncivil crimes and sexual perversion, contacting business associates, bosses, neighbors, family and friends to try and sever their social life, and in the case of Mark Bunker (also known as Wise Beardman), sending actual picketters to his house with propogandic flyers and signs. I thought that the propoganda might have gotten around, so I was interested to see if anyone knew the sides of the story. The only thing Illegal that Anonymous, as a whole, has done has been to harass the scientology website by telling everyone they knew to all visit it on X day and click refresh X times. It's been ceased, and Anons have admitted this wasn't the best idea, and later sought more peaceful actions. Some other acts of "terrorism" they've been found guilty of include prank calls, pizza orders, and faxing entirely black pages to CoS locations to waste ink. you can learn more about the incidents from a NEUTRAL perspective on Wikipedia Project ChanologyChurch of ScientologyScientology Versus the InternetAnd a not-so-neutral, but honest and very informative view on Operation ClambakeOr straight from their mouth at YoutubeFrankly, though it appears to be a serious front for many people, Anonymous isn't really taking steps much higher than they were with the website crashing. Except they've moved it from the internet to real life, picking a day far ahead, telling everyone they know from every corner of the internet to join them, giving guidelines, and then going through with it. It's all done very legally, they contact city police about the event in advance, bring signs, make sure the anons are knowledgeable enough to withstand media pressure, and make sure that no fights break out. They have gained suspicion by wearing masks, though the theme of their group (and that's really all it is, it isn't a formal organization, it's a theme) is "anonymous." The masks are also to protect themselves from the retribution of scientologists, which, as I've said before, can be quite thorough. The people who attend these protests in all likihood don't know a single person there they didn't personally invite, as, like i said, they are all random folk on the internet. How then would they even HAVE contact information for other members, or know if they were leaving? And if they leave, what would it matter, as no one knew who they were int he first place, they wouldn't be missed! Anonymous isn't something that has X members. It isn't the red cross with documented card-carrying affiliates, it's more like a thousand pluss people with first aid kits and a "first aid for dummies" book. It's sort of like a running gag that took a turn of seriousness for those who actually feel committed to bringing down the cult. Anonymous isn't a group intended to commit hate crimes, anonymous is against the shedding of blood, the harassment of others. Their goal is to mostly expose the cult to the public because the media is too afraid to touch it, taking south-park's vision and flying with it. The first goal they hope to accomplish is to draw tha IRS' attention to it, trying to remove the cult's tax-exempt status, as it's a for-profit organization. If, through all the exposure of their sacred texts and the sudden media outrage of it they keep people from being drawn into the con-game, then good on them. I've openly supported anonymous, and will happily talk about it to people. It's just such an interesting current event! Though it is, in fact, incredibly stupid. :DS<
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Post by Dark Beauty on Feb 25, 2008 12:11:23 GMT -8
Yes, it is, in fact, incredibly stupid. I found myself laughing at the fact that you are so supportive and defensive about something so dumb. However, opinions are opinions. Mine is simply: If they are not performing violent acts, let them protest all they want. If the church of Scientology is not performing violent acts, let them practice as they may. I don't care enough to support either of them.
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Post by Zeffa! on Feb 25, 2008 13:15:45 GMT -8
Yep, stupid though the situation may be, I'll back anonymous up. They're doing some real good out there by exposing $cientology and keeping the media's critical eye on it. The rant is because I can't stand it when people get sucked into propoganda so much they don't get both sides. As Flannery O'Connor might have said once maybe, "If they are blind, write big! If they are deaf, then shout!"
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Post by Dark Beauty on Feb 25, 2008 14:18:48 GMT -8
From what I have gathered in my recent studies of the subject, both parties are worthy of accusations.
Anonymous has, in fact, been part of cyberterrorism. This was said in a video from a member of Anonymous. Their main target for a long time was to recieve, as Zephyr posted in his first post, "lulz." They would do this by hacking into random people's accounts on the internet (the easiest targets being MySpace users), sending threatening messages to others, and doing stupid rude things on the streets. Lulz are usually created by being rude and inconsiderate to others - ask any middle schooler.
There were dissentions and arguments between members of Anonymous. They were not stable until just recently, when they decided to target the Church of Scientology.
The Church itself is, in fact, an amoral thing. They believe in the pursuit of knowledge, but the members have to pay for the "leaders" (who nobody really knows) to get whatever knowledge it is they need for illegal medical things. Be that as it may, the money, for the most part, is given willingly by the members. I cannot say whether or not these members were brainwashed, but who can? The church has been said to do many other things, but all of it is kept rather quiet. A secret, if you will.
If you go onto Youtube with an unpredjudice mindset, you will see that both of these groups are fanatical. Both give extremely disturbing messages to the other group, and it frightens me that they are taking it to such extremes.
I have every reason to be terrified of March 15th - Anonymous has been known for its cyberterrorism in the past, and nothing is stopping them from going back to it. I have no idea what the Church is capable of, but they are good at seeking people out. I shall keep other comments to myself... unless someone pushes me further.
That is, my friends, the unbiased opinion of mine.
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Post by Zeffa! on Feb 25, 2008 14:47:31 GMT -8
Glad to see people looking into the matter themselves! I love it when this sort of thing happens. That operation clambake site gives some more detail about exactly how willing these donations of money are, and how small they are (something along the lines of $240 for the initial audit, and $1000/hour for every audit afterwards. It's then $45,000 to reach OT2, and then the fun one is charging people $300,000 for the sacred knowledge of how the world was formed, involving the evil alien overlord Xenu, volcanoes, space-airplanes, and giant flying soul-vacuums, saying that all religion is simply a subliminal message implanted into the souls. This always makes me laugh when I hear that $cientology claims to be compatible with all other religions. I am definitly biased I'm afraid. I'd condone the defacing of myspace pages and cyber-plaguing (as I was actually victim of with the goatse image that someone replaced my avatar with) much more than a world-scale pyramid scheme.
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Post by Dark Beauty on Feb 25, 2008 18:07:36 GMT -8
Glad to see people looking into the matter themselves! You'd expect less of me? Yes. And Rai is biased against them. Hence why I did my own digging. That frightens me the most out of all of this.
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Post by Raiku on Feb 25, 2008 18:18:38 GMT -8
Ees true, I find myself biased against it. I hate it when that happens.
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